Beyond Downloads: Real Growth and Full Transparency, with AudienceLift’s Robert Tuchman 🚀
Eurowaves x Audience Lift Interview
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Robert Tuchman, co-founder and co-CEO of Amaze Media Labs and AudienceLift, discusses his journey from entrepreneur to podcast host, why producing a great show is only half the challenge, and how AudienceLift Verified Growth™ is helping podcasters, networks and major podcast producers build highly engaged audiences with greater transparency, accountability and long-term retention.
AudienceLift, which operates as a standalone business within Amaze Media Labs, was recently named to the Inc. 5000 list of the fastest-growing private companies in America. It is the third company Tuchman and his longtime business partner, Brett Sklar, have built together to earn a place on the prestigious list
Tell us about your podcasting journey.
I came to podcasting as both an entrepreneur and a storyteller. Before entering the industry, I spent many years building companies in sports, entertainment and experiential marketing. Those businesses taught me that the most effective way to connect with people is through compelling stories, memorable experiences and authentic conversations.
After selling our previous company to Creative Artists Agency and working there for several years, I had a front-row seat to the rapid growth of audio and podcasting. I had always loved radio and audio, so I became incredibly excited about where the medium was heading.
My podcasting journey truly began when I started hosting How Success Happens for Entrepreneur. For four years, I had the opportunity to interview accomplished entrepreneurs, executives and innovators about the obstacles they faced, the decisions they made and the lessons that ultimately led to their success.
Those conversations became a kind of business-school education for me. I learned directly from some of the most successful people in entrepreneurship while gaining a firsthand appreciation for the intimacy and influence of podcasting. A strong interview can create a genuine relationship among the host, the guest and the listener.
The experience also exposed me to one of the industry’s biggest challenges: creating an excellent podcast does not automatically mean people will discover it. There are thousands of great shows competing for attention, and even established brands frequently struggle to build a consistent audience.
That realization eventually became one of the driving forces behind Amaze Media Labs and AudienceLift.
What’s the story behind Amaze Media Labs and AudienceLift? What prompted you to start them?
My business partner, Brett Sklar, and I have been building companies together for more than 25 years. In 2020, we saw that companies were becoming increasingly interested in branded podcasts, but many lacked the internal expertise to develop, produce, distribute and market them properly. We founded Amaze Media Labs to provide brands with a complete, professional podcasting solution and a platform through which they could showcase their thought leadership, tell their own stories and own their content.
While hosting How Success Happens, I would often interview impressive entrepreneurs and executives and wonder why they were not creating podcasts of their own. They had tremendous knowledge, powerful stories and valuable perspectives, yet many were not using podcasting to control their narratives, build brand awareness and establish deeper relationships with their audiences.
Amaze quickly became a production partner for major companies, but we continued hearing the same question:
“Once the podcast is produced, how do we get people to listen?”
That question became the inspiration for AudienceLift. In 2023, Amaze acquired Rockable, a technology company focused on audience acquisition. We combined its technology with our experience in podcast production, media and marketing to build a proprietary podcast-growth platform.
AudienceLift uses technology to match podcast trailers and promotional creative with contextually relevant content across digital publishers. This allows shows to reach real people whose demonstrated interests align with the subject of the podcast. Since its launch, AudienceLift has grown into a standalone business within Amaze Media Labs and was recently named to the Inc. 5000 list of the fastest-growing private companies in America.
The recognition is especially meaningful because AudienceLift is now the third company Brett and I have built together to make the Inc. 5000, following TSE Sports & Entertainment in 2005 and Goviva in 2015. Remarkably, each company earned the distinction approximately 10 years apart. We have always viewed the Inc. 5000 as one of the most respected measures of entrepreneurial growth and achievement. To have three companies we built together recognized over more than two decades is something we are incredibly proud of.
It also reflects the rapidly growing demand for measurable podcast audience development and the trust that leading podcasters, networks, brands and producers have placed in AudienceLift. Through this experience, we realized that podcast production and podcast growth could not be treated as completely separate disciplines. A show needs excellent content, but it also needs an intelligent, measurable and transparent strategy for discovery.
How does AudienceLift help podcasters grow their audiences?
AudienceLift helps podcasts reach people beyond those who already follow the show or happen to discover it inside a podcast application.
We take a podcast’s trailer or promotional creative and place it alongside contextually relevant content across digital publishers. Someone reading about business, sports, technology, health, wellness or another relevant subject can discover a podcast while already engaging with content related to that topic.
The goal is to introduce the show to real people who have already demonstrated an interest in its subject matter. From there, the individual can listen, subscribe or continue to the podcast through a preferred listening platform. Our traditional AudienceLift product can also generate push-notification subscribers who are notified when new episodes become available.
This helps podcasters build an audience that can return over time rather than simply producing a one-time increase in downloads. We also support YouTube growth through customized audience-development strategies and targeted campaigns designed to attract relevant viewers and subscribers.
AudienceLift is built to help creators grow across both audio and video. We no longer view those as completely separate worlds because modern audiences discover and consume podcast content across many different platforms.
What makes AudienceLift different from other podcast-growth tools?
The simplest answer is real growth with complete transparency. Podcast growth has traditionally been presented as a final download number. A campaign ends and the number increases, but the podcaster may receive very little information about where the audience originated, why someone engaged or what happened after the initial interaction.
We believe podcasters deserve to understand the process behind the number.
AudienceLift is focused on reaching real people who have demonstrated an interest in the subject of the podcast. We are platform-agnostic, and we do not believe listeners should be forced into a single listening environment simply because it is more convenient for the campaign provider.
Transparency is another major difference. AudienceLift reporting can show the digital publishers on which a podcast was promoted, giving marketers a much clearer understanding of how discovery occurred rather than presenting audience growth as a black box.
The objective is not merely to produce a temporary spike in downloads. It is to introduce the right people to the podcast, allow them to engage in the way they prefer and give them an easy path to continue listening. That is how podcast growth becomes more valuable, sustainable and effective over time.
What’s the latest update from AudienceLift, and how can it help podcasters reach the next level?
We are introducing AudienceLift Verified Growth™, which provides visibility into the complete listener journey—from the specific publisher where someone discovers a podcast to the application or platform that person ultimately chooses for listening.
The reality is that podcasting is no longer an Apple Podcasts-and-Spotify-only world. People now discover podcast content through digital publications, YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, X and many other sources. They may then choose to listen through Apple Podcasts, YouTube Music, Overcast or another preferred application. Verified Growth™ is built around that modern listener behavior.
Its capabilities include:
Full publisher transparency: See the specific digital publishers where a podcast was promoted.
Preferred-app tracking: Understand which podcast application or listening platform each person selected.
Social engagement tracking: Gain greater visibility into engagement originating through major social platforms.
Unified campaign analytics: Bring discovery, engagement and listening data together within one dashboard.
Greater insight into listener behavior and retention: Understand not only how the audience was generated, but also what happened after the initial discovery.
Our traditional AudienceLift products remain available. Verified Growth™ adds a powerful new option for podcasters and marketers who want greater visibility, accountability and insight throughout the campaign.
For us, this represents the next stage of podcast audience development. Downloads remain important, but the industry needs to move beyond reporting only a final number. Podcasters, networks and producers should be able to understand the journey that produced that number—where listeners came from, how they engaged and where they chose to continue listening.
That combination of real growth, complete transparency and stronger retention is what we believe the podcast industry has been missing.
What is your view of the European podcast market, and how is AudienceLift supporting international growth?
Europe represents an enormous opportunity, but it should never be approached as one uniform podcast market. Each country has its own language, media environment, cultural preferences and leading listening platforms. We already work with several major companies in UK podcast production, and their needs are similar to those of podcasters throughout the world: real growth, transparency and retention. That diversity is exactly why a flexible, platform-agnostic approach is so important.
AudienceLift campaigns can be structured around geography, language, content category and audience interest. We can help an English-language business podcast reach professionals across several markets, or create a more concentrated campaign for a show seeking listeners within a particular country.
Allowing listeners to continue to their preferred podcast application is especially important internationally. The dominant listening or discovery platform can vary significantly by market. The technology should adapt to the listener rather than requiring the listener to adapt to the technology.
Podcasting is becoming increasingly global, but successful international growth still requires local relevance. The most effective campaigns combine scalable technology with an understanding of how people in each market discover, engage with and consume content.
Share two or three of your favorite podcast recommendations.
The Rest is Football: Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer, and Micah Richards discuss football’s biggest stories. From last-minute winners to transfer sagas, fantasy football gems, and the drama behind the scenes.
The News Agents: Emily Maitlis, Jon Sopel and Lewis Goodall – three of the UK’s top journalists – host an award-winning daily news podcast. They’re not just here to tell you what’s happening, but why. Expect astute analysis and explanation of the day’s news – and a healthy dose of scepticism and the ability to laugh at it all when needed.
Thank you, Robert!